For a while now (10 years in fact!) there’s been a video on YouTube purporting to show a push hands challenge match that went down between Chen Xiao Wang, the recognised head of Chen style Taijiquan, and a XingYi practitioner from Taiwan called Liao Bai.
The challenge is often cited as a rare example of an uncoperative push hands exchange featuring Chen Xiao Wang, and one in which he doesn’t come off looking as proficient as he normally does. While nothing of substance happens at all in the clip, the fact that Liao Bai is able to launch a couple of strong attacks through Chen Xiao Wang’s defences, and occasionally make Chen move a foot is seen as some sort of a victory for him.
Firstly, I find the idea that this is some sort of victory slightly bizarre to begin with – I mean, he made him move his foot? Really? Is that it?
Secondly, the explanation that accompanies the YouTube video is written by only one side of the two parties involved, and heavily partisan. The clip is described as a “freestyle push hands”. However, it may turn out that what we’re seeing is nothing of the sort.
Mike Sigman posted recently:
Liao came to a workshop of CXW’s and bragged that no one can take his Tiger Fist releases. The video pretty much starts where CXW calls him on it and says, “OK, you do it”. Liao attempts a number of times to release his Tiger Fist (you can see it is the same release every time) and CXW attempts to absorb and instantaneously release back into Liao Bai, by CXW’s use of Receiving Jin. A lot of people embarrassed themselves and their reputations by publicly posting this video and saying it was “push hands”: it wasn’t even close … it was an example of CXW trying to use Receiving Jin in an open, unrehearsed setting, thus making it a good video to study.
OK, Mike is clearly a paid-up member of Team Chen Style :), but even so, I find his explanation persuasive. What they’re doing in the clip is clearly not push hands in any way, shape or form. There’s just some awkward feeling out – a touching of the arms, then Liao Bai tries to launch attacks, while CXW tries to absorb them, without attacking back. Chen is clearly not even trying to attack back. If his only aim was to show he could absorb the attacks (using Receiving Jin), then this makes sense. And for the most part he succeeds.
Either way, it’s rare to find a clip of Chen Xiao Wang that’s not cooperative, so it’s instructive. Most of the time Chen succeeds, but not always. That’s what ‘real’ looks like. It’s not going to sell seminars or generate income, and it comes with risks to both health and reputation so I can see why he does so little of it, but you know it when you see it.
I created this blog post to counteract the popular narrative that surrounds this video. If we’re going to get to the bottom of it then it’s important to hear from both sides, and so far the idea that it’s a push hands challenge has gone pretty much uncontested.
It might be time to view it again, with fresh eyes.
3 thoughts on “A new take on an old challenge video…”
My, my, my, just how many years is that vid lied about? I was at the seminar of CXW in Gaoxiong, southern Taiwan (not at the Shaolin school, where the encounter happened, that was a different location, not open publicly). Bragging about how much money he is making a year was CXW, 2 days non-stop, lamenting that the Taiwanese did pay not enough, that he wouldn’t come back. Liao Bai is a mediocre practitioner of Sun Neijia, and CXW is a Grandmaster and lineage holder. He looked bad and lost a lot of face and it clearly showed that he never knew how to fight. End of story.
Fair enough Mike – I did put a smiley next to it 😉
“Mike is clearly a paid-up member of Team Chen Style.” In the sense that the largest source of information available to westerners about the body movement/mechanics in Chinese martial-arts is demonstrably given to us by Chen-style sources, I’m an admirer of the Chen-style. However, if you notice, I use examples of movement mechanics from a large number of styles, even though the Chen-style has the most data-sources available. If the most usable data came from Xingyi (a fair amount does), you’d see me referring a lot to Xingyi and Xingyi greats … and you’d be saying that I was “clearly a paid-up member of Team Xingyi”. Meh. 😉